Curse

Solas · Jul 16, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

I dont really want the game to be about leveling, i dont mind it though just aslong there are some good quests.
I liked how the majority if factions and NF was for lv.20s and hope the devs will consider factiosn and NF while gw2 is being developed.

Guess we'll have to wait and see if Anet make a good job out of it, they could suprise us but until I see any examples i'm in favor of a set level cap.

Oukanna · Jul 16, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Any higher than a level 50 cap and it would just turn into a grind fest like some of the other MMO's I liked the idea that skill is more important than level, it is what made gw different. To take away that aspect it would just be like any other mmo

Also you think rank segregation was bad in gw1, if there was no level cap....well people who don't play 24/7 or speed through everything would never get into good groups.

There will have to be a lot of content to satisfy each level group, i mean if there is no limit, then obviously at some point everything will become easy, and imo when something becomes so easy you hit level 50s and they die in one hit....well it just becomes boring.

Lady Raenef · Jul 16, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Am I the only one who is okay with the infinite levels? :S

Hyper.nl · Jul 16, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

I would like an unlimited cap. It is anice to always have some room left for improvement, even it gets very hard at a certain point. With the current level cap, getting XP is almost useless. With an unlimited 'cap' you can continue to get rewarded for quests etc.

Sleeper Service · Jul 16, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Am I the only one who is okay with the infinite levels? :S

no im ok with it too.

infinite level cap is the same as saying "levels are pointless/there are no levels".

level does not have to translate into "power".

attributes and skill synergy is what determines "power" in GW.

MTG does not have levels and it works fine.

and infinite output or input does not exist granted but infinite series is no big deal.

RiKio · Jul 16, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

If it doesnt screw the PvP gameplay, for me, it is fine.

Whatever, they should add higher XP rewards if they are planning to put a high level cap.

Meat Axe · Jul 16, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Am I the only one who is okay with the infinite levels? :S

I'm also fine with the idea of an infinite level cap. I like watching my characters advance as they move through the game. I don't generally actively strive to grind out levels, but luckily, based on the information that has been given so far, I won't have to. It's nice to be playing in an area and suddenly you're a level higher, as opposed to "You have received a skill point that you will likely never notice is even there."

We already know that there is going to be a limit on the amount of power a person can gain through leveling. It has also been stated that Anet is trying to keep their anti-grind philosophy in mind (and before anyone says anything, I do believe they still have that philosophy, even in GW1. There is no significant grind that is compulsory). Further, there will be a sidekick system, where you can join a party and be boosted temporarily to the level of whoever your "mentor" is. And finally, almost all content will be designed to be able to be soloed. I suspect there will be elite areas at the end that it will be incredibly difficult or even impossible to do with a single person.

With all that, I think that those of you who are worried about the higher level cap because of grind and possible discrimination issues are concerning yourselves over nothing at all. If you run into someone who insults you for being a lower level, you have a few options; ignore them and play with friends, ignore them and go and find people who are a bit less inbalanced and insecure, or simply go and play the game solo. To me, it seems like Anet has taken this all into consideration and is trying to cater to the widest audience possible.

Of course, this is all speculation based on what I have read so far. It is always a possibility that the game will differ from what information has been released. As always, it'd be better to just wait and see when the game is released (or it goes into open beta at the very least).

Accursed · Jul 16, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

To tell you the truth, I don't care about the level cap in the game. To me it's really just the graphics and the gameplay. Thats what the game is about. So if the level cap is around 5 billion then I wouldn't care, I would simply go to the highest level humanly possibly when for me is probably around 500-1000 since I get addicted to games very easily.

rohara · Jul 16, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

a low level cap is part of what makes GW great, imo. i don't give a crap about character development (is getting attribute points really all that exciting?), i just want to get max armor/weapons/skills and be on my merry way to enjoy more challenging areas of the game. i don't enjoy playing a noob character fighting noob monsters.

i don't see the point in gaining levels if you no longer get a benefit from them. just cap that sheiss so it doesn't turn into a level e-peen nightmare.

as a player with 10 pve chars and 4 pvp chars, i say a big fat NO to a high level cap. keep it friendly for those of us who like having multiple characters without having to mega-grind.

gremlin · Jul 16, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

All the games I have played that have had no level cap tended to have 2 things in common.

The skills all topped out quite early and the points needed to get the next level became ever larger.

In effect the games became self capping because once you reached a certain point you were able to use all the skills in the game.
So all you gained were hit health and spell points.
The points needed to get to the next level were so high that it was pointless to keep going.

How this could work in gw2 with no cap would probably be the added damage duration healt gain or energy drain would top at some point and the player would reach the point of diminishing returns.

Play non stop for a week get to level 21 another month gets you lvl 22 a year gets you 23 and so on.

It was common practice in the early table top games where experience points to get from level 1 to level 2 was say 100 points while level 20 to level 21 was 1,000,000 points.

Who would ever concentrate play on one character to get a few more points than someone else when they could get 3 or 4 other characters to a reasonable level.

Personally hoping for no increase or maybe another 5 or 10 levels max.

Bryant Again · Jul 16, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Too soon too tell. High levels doesn't automatically mean being completely locked out from huge portions of the game. We don't know how aesthetic it'll be, if the gear cap follows the level cap, and likewise. If there is a cap reached in gear that is reached much earlier than the level cap, there won't be much of a problem thanks largely due to the sidekick system.

Regarding discrimination, it's a lost cause. There is nothing you can do to help it. If it's not one thing, it's another. If it's not a high level, it's a certain shield or armorset.

So, I'm not worried at all about the level cap. Just the gear cap. But all in all we need to know more about how it's going to work before we can judge upon it.

sixofone · Jul 16, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

It depends, really, on what you all mean by "levels". Does max lvl (20/30/50, etc.) = max health? Armor?

Obviously, if they have no level cap, then you either start with max health/energy, or hit it fairly soon. So, what difference, then does "level" make?

As it currently stands, it simply gives me more points to acquire skills with. At lvl 20, I have all my attribute points to play with. I have max health. Armor was independent of level, so gaining XP was for: titles (Survivor); and to gain skill points. Aside from that, what did it do?

romeus petrus · Jul 16, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

As long as infinite levels don't mean infinite grinding I see no problem.

Phoenix Tears · Jul 16, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Am I the only one who is okay with the infinite levels? :S

No, you aren't, at least not in all points.

I'm for a level Cap at exactly 100 !! 100 is a fine number, gives players enough to do for developing their characters from total nobodies into mighty heroes or anti-heroes, as you could call otherwise "villains". But that stuff is an other story ...

All those people here whining about high level caps are just lazy bums. People, which don't want to give a shit piece of effort for their characters and would love to get put everything free into their asses in seconds after creation of the character, without having to do something for it. Such types of peple are it, which moan here about high caps and its disgusting to see that ever and ever and ever ... again.

A level Cap of 100 allows it the Devs to create much more interesting Character Development Systems, which include more, than just only reaching within 10 hours lvl 20 and choosing 2 professions as primary/secondary combination -.-

GW2's CDS needs alot more depth, than that one, GW1 had and can be only done, when the cap grts increased. More depth for a better CDS is just impossible with such a low Cap, like 20, because such a low cap offers simple not enough space for a real good CDS which should be a bit more complex and as said should simple have more depth, so that GW2 won't have again Wannabe-Professions, like Paragons &Co. which just look like retarded 3 in 1-Mixes from Kiddy-Wishes of Forum QQ'ers.

As long the Experience System gets balanced together with the CDS, there will be no grind. As long the game is filled later enough with good quests, that are realling rewarding and not a big joke, like 95% of GW'1s quests, we will level later in GW2 then quick enough, even the high levels - as said , as long we players will receive good enough Exp. so that we don't have to grind months over months monsters, just for +1 level or so.

When GW2's gamplay is later concepted like reaching level 100 with a character in 3 months, then this is good concepted - also alot better, than GW1, where you are lvl 20 in ~10 hours, if you're good -.-

3 months of effort for a maxed Character is not too much, its well paced for a MMO. With normal playing - making quests , missions, killing monsters, while doing quests/missions, or just doing other things, that give you Exp, 3 months will go quick over. Players which play alot would surely reach such a paced game in like 1-2 month(s). Around 3 months is paced on casual Gamers.

However, thats just my opinion about the Level Cap - when I buy then game, I want to have something to do with my characters over longer time, than just silly 10 hours to reach max level.
I want to see over a longer pace, then 20 levels, how my created characters changes from a Nobody into a mighty character and that step by step, to receive a better feeling about the progress of my character's live.
Thats it, what makes a RPG a RPG - the traditional gameplay elements. Masters don't fall from heavens, when your characters should become one day powerful, you've to train it and that over long time - only then you can be proud of your effort, once you reached the last level of performance of your character.

"Level" Discrimination will be ever there, just look at the difference between a level 1 Character and a level 20 character player in GW1 - its 100% the same -.- as when you comparise a level 50 chara with a level 100 chara. Same with people with too big e peens - people will find ever in games something, that lets they stroke their e-peens over others - in GW its titles, grind emotes, minipets, elite armors and just Wealth (pure money/ stacks or rare valuable stuff), the difference is only, that these e-peen things don't have direct effects on the characters, that make them mightier, over others, at least not direct *cough* lucky,wisdom,lightbringer and other rep titles *cough*

GW1 was a big fail of a trial&error game - GW2 will make now hopefully not the errors of the prequel again and concepts the failing concepts of GW1 better - one part of that overal concept is the Level Cap, which needs to be higher for better overall gameplay concepts later.

Plaxers just need later only enough to do content wise, that they will never need to grind over months repeatedly the same monsters for Exp - thats all to prevent GW2 to become an Asia Grinder - just a balanced Exp-System is the solution and with balanced in that point i mean absolutely sure not something similar, like Ragnarok Online, where it takes really months over months of excessive grindign, just to reach +1 level, due of needing like 94516751843758 more Exp for +1 Level

The most easy and best Exp System i've seen yet in a game was for example Final Fantasy 8 - there you've needed for every level just only 1000 Exp - every 1000 Exp = level up - the Game had a level Cap of 100, like all traditional RPG's...

Imagine such a System for GW2.

Monsters give 1-10 Exp (every 10 levels +1 more exp)/Kill, Quests say 50-500 Exp and Missions 500-1000, and leveling would go quick enough, but would by far take longer and more effort, than just silly ~10 hours

More simpler and effective can no Exp-System be. I don't know, why everythign in games must be ever in huge numbers, when small numbers can do the absolute same >.>

MithranArkanere · Jul 16, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. "Unlimited" leveling is impossible in a computer game. All values must have a cap. You can make the cap something very large like 65535, or even 4,294 967,296, but you can't have "unlimited." The computer can't understand "unlimited."

2. I do not see ANY benefit to having a longer leveling path. None. Does anyone remember leveling in D2? You'd spend about a week joining run games over and over to get to 85 so you could sink your skill/attribute points and put on your gear. You basically didn't play the game for that first week on each character. What a pointless waste. I don't want that back.

1. 2 word: Dinamic array.
A list that can be increased dinamically over time. Once a bytes are used, one more is added:
Exp{xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,...}

2. They leveled in D2 because it was the ONLY way to earn the skill points and attribute points, in GW, you can do that also by questing or buying stars of transference. But once you hit level 20+2 skill points, you need only 15.000 exp to the next level, not a geometric progression like in D2.
What makes you think that we'll need 10 times the exp to the previous level to level up in GW2? What if it is also arithmetic progression once you hit a certain point?

Ate of DK · Jul 16, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

GuildWars with a high level cap? Don't like the sound of that.
The current system is perfect, only thing they needed is a exp-title so those farming junkies can pose their 100.000.000+ XP and we're done with this irrelevant questions. Serious, the only reason why this leveling keeps popping up is because some like to pose how many (XP/Skill Points = lvl) they have.

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 16, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

to be honest the more information they release about GW2 the more I think its going to be a crappy grindfest that I want no part of.

yes anet no large level cap or long grind thats one of the main reasons i play GW. I don't want to spend all my time grinding to max level thats boring as hell.

glacialphoenix · Jul 16, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I'm cool with raising the level cap to maybe 30, but definitely no large level cap. Even with the level cap at 20 there was already plenty of level discrimination - I don't want to have to grind my way to the top just to prove that I do, in fact, know how to play.

Kanyatta · Jul 16, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I wish Anet wouldn't touch the level cap. A big reason I bought the game was the low level cap. I'd tried many other MMOs and hated grinding in every one of them. I hated all the "Kill 6 boars and 12 spiders" quests. Guild Wars had none of that, which was great. Now that GW2 is attempting to emulate WoW, it's a big turn off.

I don't know where they found that "most players want a high level cap". Did they survey Everquest players or what? They certainly did not survey Guild Wars players.

kostolomac · Jul 16, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I have an idea regarding infinite levels.
Now you gain attribute points until you reach level 20 and then just gain skill points.
Why doesn't A.net do the same in GW2 , except you also gain a level with that skill point too.